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Comic book writer and artist Daniel Warren Johnson has captured the imagination of legions of comic book fans with his takes on Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and even Beta-Ray Bill in recent years. His latest book, Jurassic League, was released yesterday by DC Comics, presenting an alternative reality where the classic DC heroes that populate the Justice League are, well, dinosaurs fighting in a prehistoric realm. As if that isn't offbeat enough, Johnson is a massive fan of professional wrestling and has incorporated a number of wrestling maneuvers into his scripts and art. With the release of Jurassic League and his new supernatural pro wrestling comic Do A Powerbomb being released by Image Comics next month, Johnson sat down with PWInsider.com talk what else? Pro wrestling and comics!
Mike Johnson: Hey everybody. It's Mike Johnson It is Tuesday, May 10, 2022. It's a special day if you're a DC Comic Book fan and even if you're a pro wrestling fan, because our guest at this time, Daniel Warren Johnson, no relation as far as we know, has his brand new book out. Jurassic League is now on the stands of the comic shops. You could find it at ComiXology if you're a digital comic book reader, and it's a very simple, fun, different offbeat take on the mythical heroes of the Justice League. It's a different world, and imagine if Jurassic Park meets the Justice League, but the Justice League IS Jurassic Park. It's Supersaur and Batsaurus and Aquaman and Wonder Woman all re-envisioned as dinosaurs fighting in a prehistoric realm against some of the villains that we know from DC Comics, in a much different way. You're probably wondering right now, "All right, why is there a comic book conversation here on PWInsider?" It's because Daniel Warren Johnston is a massive wrestling fan, and a lot of wrestling moves have been incorporated into the art for Jurassic League. We had the artwork a couple of days ago of Green Lantern hitting an intergalactic German Suplex. There's also Batman hitting a suplex on the Joker in Jurassic League #1. So, sir, first of all, it is always a pleasure to talk to a fellow wrestling fan. Congratulations on the book coming out. I know you've got some other wrestling related stuff. We'll talk about that in a bit. So let's do the obvious here. You are a wrestling fan. That's why stuff's been incorporated into Jurassic League. What is it about pro wrestling that you love, and why was it important to imbue it into Jurassic League?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Oh gosh. Well, I mean, why do I love pro wrestling? There's a million answers to that question. But specifically, when it comes to pro wrestling and pro wrestling moves in comics, even as crazy as ones like the Jurassic League, let's see, when we think about comic books and comic book combat, I feel like it's really easy or really... Nah, basic sounds so negative... I don't necessarily mean it negatively, but it's kind of basic to just have characters punching. I'm conditioned as a writer-artist and especially as an artist to when I draw somebody fighting, I just draw them punching, but wrestling moves are so cool and really unique, that it's just nice. It's like another layer of salt, just a way to kind of break down that combat and to make it just a little more interesting. That gets me really excited because I've written and drawn a lot of comic books, and I'm always looking for new ways to spice things up. So incorporating wrestling moves and different throws like the suplex or what have you, it's just a fun way to bring everything together and tie in some of my loves, make it a little more exciting and just bring people something new.
Mike Johnson: So you've written Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in the past, but obviously Jurassic League is a completely different, unique take. I feel like it's almost like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from the early '80s meets Masters of the Universe meets DC because you play off all those classic DC mythos and archetypes. Where did the original seed of Jurassic League come from, and what was it like getting DC on board to do something completely different that is unique and fun and vibrant in a way that really... We've seen all sorts of alternative takes on these characters before, but nothing ever like this.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Well, really, most of the credit goes to my co-writer, Juan Gideon, and the artist on the book. It was his baby from the start and he actually gave me a ring and he had been a huge fan of old school video games like Primal Rage, and a lot of that dino-centric kind of fighting style games. He was like, "Hey, I really want to make this into a comic book. What do you think about maybe helping me co-write it?" Because DC at the time was very interested and they just wanted someone to kind of help Juan along because Juan has never written a book before. I kind of came along to help Juan tell his story. Most of the designs... I can't take that much credit because most of the designs are all from Juan Gideon. The backbone of the story had started in Juan's mind. It's just something that he's super passionate about and it includes all the things that I love like dinosaurs and fighting and the Jurassic League and so on, but it was just kind of this perfect mold. This perfect soup for me to jump in on and help Juan out. I'm really glad I did. It's been so much fun and it's just really crazy. I don't know, it's just fun to kick back and write some books about dinosaurs.
Mike Johnson: You can't go wrong with dinosaurs, right? We all grew up on Godzilla and these other Kaiju. So we've seen a couple of German suplexes popping up in the artwork here. So, why the German suplex? What is it about that move that made you go, "It's perfect for the Jurassic League realm, and the storytelling that we're doing with the book?"
Daniel Warren Johnson: Well, the German suplex is a move that I have grown to love because when you're watching pro wrestling for the first time and you don't know a ton about the different moves and how they originated from actual... Maybe MMA or judo, actual sports? You realize... Once I started watching pro wrestling and I saw the German suplex, part of it is there's so many moves in matches now where it almost like it passes you by, but then I saw somebody get suplexed in an MMA match and it wrecked them. I realized unless you know what you're doing exactly, like you're really going to get knocked out because it's a move that is meant to destroy. Once I realized the power of that move in real life, it helped me appreciate it more in pro wrestling. And then in turn, made me want to emulate it in comic books. There's also a Japanese Manga that is called Tough. It's kind of obscure and it's an MMA comic and there's so many German suplexes in it and they just break it down. The little grip of the hands and the shifting of the weight up and the different ways that they show the neck landing on the mat. It's just very... It's like beautiful violence. It's just really fun to illustrate. I mean, I know I just wrote it for the Jurassic League, but I've drawn quite a few German suplexes and I'm really into drawing things that have implied mass and weight. And if you draw it right, it looks so cool. It just looks so cool.
Mike Johnson: So obviously you love pro wrestling. I was curious, what's the stuff that you enjoy right now. Like I can see you wearing a New Japan Pro Wrestling shirt. So, you obviously are deep into the trenches of what's beyond just WWE. Who are the talents or what are the promotions that you're personally really enjoying right now?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Yeah, so I've got to be honest. I'm pretty new to pro wrestling. I became a fan in 2018, so I was not allowed to watch pro wrestling growing up. My parents were like no way, that's not happening. I didn't have cable either. So I was never really able to appreciate it. And I was growing up right around that attitude era, like that golden age of WWE vibe and I'm still sad about it, but I got into wrestling as an adult through New Japan. And so there's always going to be a soft spot in my heart for New Japan because that 2018 G1 is where I really put my whole body in the water. I had my toe in early 2018 and then once the G1 hit, I was all in and seeing people like Kota Ibushi and Tomohiro Ishii, who were some of my favorite wrestlers. I didn't know about the WWE a ton, because like I knew it was the thing that I wasn't allowed to watch when I was a kid. So my way into American wrestling was when AEW was started by some of the guys over in New Japan, like Kenny Omega and the Bucks when they came over and started AEW, I just followed them. And then through AEW I've got an appreciation for the way that they homage-backed things like from WCW and WWE, which I don't really know because like I haven't grown up with it, but then my friends who I'm watching with, or just the general community, will be like, "Oh yeah, this is kind of echoing that one thing from the eighties." And then I'll go back and I'll do my research and then I find that's a really fun way to delve into the history of pro wrestling. I'm loving it all right now. I'm really, really, really loving AEW. I watch it every week. It's really exciting to me what they're doing with the talent over there. And yeah, also it has those guys from New Japan that I just loved so much. It feels cool, like from the ground up kind of thing, but I do love it all.
I live in Chicago, so I'm really close to a lot of the Warrior wrestling shows that they do here. I love those. I love the indie shows. AAW is also here. Those are great. I watched Josh Alexander. I watched him have an hour long time limit drawn match back in All Out Weekend. That was pretty incredible. And yeah, it takes a lot for me to not like something.
Mike Johnson: As a Chicago guy and a New Japan fan, you must be excited about Forbidden Door coming in June to the United Center.
Daniel Warren Johnson: You have no idea. Oh my gosh. And I forgot that there was a presale. So I just managed to get in on Friday.
Mike Johnson: Woo. The skin of your teeth, right? Just like the Justice League saving the day!
Let's talk a little bit more about DC. When you have an opportunity to reimagine these characters and work with Juan to take a different take on them. What's the give and take like? Because you know, these are the characters for DC. What's that give and take like between the creativity of yourself and Juan and the corporate side, where they're like you can only go so far, but we can't have you doing X because Batman would never do this in any realm. So what's that like, especially when you're trying to reimagine an entirely new universe for DC?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Well, as far as the visuals go. the pitch with the editors had already happened. [They were in a place] where they just needed a writer to help it along, and Juan had the basics down. I could tell from his sketches of Batsaur that he had been drawing this guy in his sketchbook for like two years. He just was really into drawing him. So that design was so solid and then the same thing with Supersaur. And then together, he and I came up with the Triceratops-style Wonder Woman design. And all of this is getting CC'd with our editors who are giving input here and there, but as far as the actual visual design of the characters go, DC was more or less completely hands off, which has been really nice. And it's just been me and Juan riffing. Juan brought in like most of the A-list cast, like the Green Lantern design. Oh gosh, I know I should know the name of this dinosaur, but they kind of have the duck bill and the... I don't know what that-
Mike Johnson: I don't know it either, so yeah. Okay. Somebody will write to us and say, don't you know it's a duck bill, blah, blah, blah! So we'll be fine.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Yeah, exactly. And of course, Flash is a velociraptor because he has to be. Things like that. But a lot of the things that we've been going back and forth on, Juan and I, are some of the bad guy dinos. I don't remember whose idea it was, but together we came up with the idea to make Joker, a dilophosaurus from Jurassic Park: the spitting in people's faces. That was just really fun, and honestly, once the idea was in place, Juan just executed it perfectly. And then as far as pushback with what characters are allowed to do, it's been an interesting challenge, because Batsaurus is an allosaurus. I'm like, "He would like to kill people." And DC's like, "No, no, no, Batman can't kill people.
Mike Johnson: Even in that realm.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Right.
Mike Johnson: We're talking about pro wrestling. One of the things that's great for pro wrestlers is they get that immediate gratification of the reaction of the crowd for you as a writer and artist, especially in something like DC or, or some of your other books, you put it to bed and you have to wait for it to be published. Sometimes that could be a long period of time. Obviously you don't get that immediate gratification in the same way that a wrestler does, but what is it like devouring or digesting some of the reaction when a book like this comes out and obviously there's some positive, there's some negative, you go on Twitter, it's all evil. But what's it like for you? And how do you define your personal satisfaction when you see something that you're proud of that comes out like Jurassic League today. And then the feedback comes back to you. How do you define what works for you and what makes you satisfied or not? When your baby is out there and now everybody's going to judge it?
Daniel Warren Johnson: I've been getting paid for doing comics since late 2013. Over the years I've developed some pretty thick skin, which has been really good and healthy for me, because that's something that's necessary, I feel, to be in comics. Especially now with how prevalent social media is. But honestly the best I feel about a book is usually when I've got three or so issues under my belt, I know where the story's headed and I'm actively working on it. So it maybe hasn't even necessarily come out yet, but I feel confident and I feel like there's like a solid amount of work in my rear view mirror, as I'm moving forward to the conclusion of whatever story I'm working on, and it's in those moments, honestly, it's usually like I'm by myself and I'm just figuring things out or just getting all the logistics in place for when the book's going to come out, where I take a few moments for myself where I just read through the book that I've worked so hard on, like issue one and two. When I feel good about it when I'm on my own, that's a really awesome moment. I think it's also of course when people say nice things, it's great. But especially on the internet, good things that are said about my work and bad things that are said, they come at an even pace and 95% of the people that are saying things are saying good things, but the bad things sting just as bad as the good things feel good. So honestly the best I feel is when I'm actually working on it. I know it's kind of cliche to say, but that inner peace about the actual story I'm working on and I feel confident about it before it even comes out and anybody tells me anything about it. I think as a creator, that's what I need to keep going is to have that belief in a product and times. So, sometimes when you're just starting out on a book and there is that empty vacuum. You're like, what am I doing? I don't know if this is going to be good. But when you have three issues done and you're looking back. You're like, okay, this isn't awful or this is pretty good. I feel like I can kill this now. That's a really special feeling and is completely removed from any sort of response from the general public.
Mike Johnson: As an old school DC fan, I got to ask. And maybe it won't pop up in Jurassic League, but is there a Jurassic Society running around somewhere in that realm? Like I love the old team ups. That was almost like Christmas morning for me as a DC fan growing up. Crisis on Earth X and things of that nature. And obviously Crisis on Infinite Earths was to me as a kid, one of the greatest things ever. How far, at least in your mind, are we in terms of other DC teams and other DC characters out there in that realm?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Well, I think that Juan from the very beginning had an idea that this could be something that could be even bigger. And while we have talked about the possibility of there being alternate kinds of places where there are all other dinosaur legions or groups, I think for now, we're probably staying pretty close to home. That being said, I would love to do like Legion of Superheroes Jurassic League with Saturn Girl. And what was it? Cosmic Boy? The guy who... The pink?
Mike Johnson: Yeah.
Daniel Warren Johnson: And, and Matter-Eater Lad.
Mike Johnson: Yep. Let's not forget Lightning Lad.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Lightning Lad too, yeah.
Mike Johnson: We've got to mention all three of the Legionnaires 3, if you're an old school DC fan. So you have another wrestling related book that's going to be coming out in June, Do a Powerbomb, which is going to be coming out from Image. We'd be remiss if we didn't talk about that. had a chance to see some of that material and it's obviously a deep dive into the wrestling mythos, but a great supernatural cross section to it with some good cliffhangers at the end of the issue. Obviously you have such a deep love of wrestling. What was it like when you've got your own book that you're creating, that you own. You're publishing in conjunction with Image to dive into your own vision of what a pro wrestling world could be and a world wrestling storyline could be?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Honestly, it was just me trying to take my love of pro wrestling and transfer it onto the 2D page. A lot of the wrestling comics that I've read in the past, they almost seem like Saturn projects to the actual wrestling promotion themselves. I'm thinking of the WWE comics, where they don't necessarily exist without the WWE and that doesn't inherently make them bad by any means. I just really wanted to see a pro wrestling comic that was just like a pro wrestling comic that could exist on its own. I didn't want to do just a pro wrestling book where it was like real stuff with Kayfabe and where people aren't actually trying to hurt each other, because I really love that kind of supernatural vibe and tournament comics, like something you might get in Dragon Ball Z, where you kind of have the comic bulkiness mixed with the pro wrestling kind of vibe. You're making this new, in my opinion, hybrid of a place where it's not like you're having wrestling on the moon, it's still happening inside of the context of a wrestling ring. But it's also a little bit outside of the realm of possibility with Necromancers and fantasy worlds and a bunch of different kinds of wrestlers from all sorts of different planets. So that was the goal with Do a Powerbomb was just to share my love of pro wrestling in a way that could be appreciated through the lens of comic book fandom.
Mike Johnson: The thing about Do a Powerbomb that really impressed me was the actual... I don't want to give too much away. I don't want to spoil too much, but the actual first match that we see, you go back and forth between the emotion of these two competitors in the ring. Then outside the ring is one of the children of one of the competitors and her emotional heights, rising and falling as her mom is competing. To me, we've all had that moment as a wrestling fan, especially when you first discover pro wrestling when you're younger, where you are riding the roller coaster following your hero, whether it be a Hulk Hogan or a Steve Austin or a John Cena, or whoever. We all had that moment, especially when we were young. I've lived that moment as a child, but this is even more heightened because this character is the daughter of someone who's fighting in the ring, who's inspired all these people and is a huge star. There's this whole story that plays out. And I was like, all right. There were little things in there that I raised my eyebrow and I was like, he obviously loves wrestling. There's someone from Calgary, Alberta, Canada in the book. There's mentions of Japan. So there's always these wrestling hubs that are mentioned. So I'm like, "All right, this is someone who really deeply has fallen in love with wrestling", but I love the fact that there's sort of like this duality of that first match of what's going on in the ring and the reaction of the family members who kind of "know" what's going on, but things still play out in a way that they don't know exactly what's going to happen. Obviously, then there's a big twist there and that's what sends our characters off on their journey in Do a Power Bomb, but I love that whole way it was laid out because you don't see a lot of that in wrestling when it's presented. Like that was never in the Marvel WCW books back in the day or the WWF BattleMania books that Steve Ditko did for Valiant back in the day, or even the WWE books that have been more recent. It's always been these are the storylines and the characters are confined to the storylines. This was more similar to the Michael Kingston Headlocked books that are out there where it's about real people who happen to be in this over the top crazy world, and in your book, a supernatural world to boot. What was it like trying to figure out and nail the plot and the perspectives of the different characters so that it stood out in a way to you that felt authentic for pro wrestling beyond just ding, ding, ding, this is what's going on in the confines of the story of the match?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Yeah. well, I got the idea from, for having a kid figure, watching a match of maybe of a parent from... Oh God, I'm forgetting the documentary. You remember, there's a documentary where Mick Foley's kids are watching him take chair shots.
Mike Johnson: Yeah. Beyond the Mat, the Barry Blaustein documentary.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Yep. That was that scene where they're crying in the stands, as he's getting beat up. It was pretty moving. It kind of stuck with me. And also I was watching a bunch of Dark Side of the Ring and all this other stuff. I read The Squared Circle and there was this thread that I was picking up on in the generational aspect of pro wrestling, where you have like a parental child relationship where a lot of times the child will follow the footsteps of the parent. And I wanted to have that in Do a Powerbomb, but I wanted it to be very apparent without me necessarily having to say that. So having a character watch their own parent wrestle seemed like the most natural thing to do, and just like you were saying, for me, I love watching pro wrestling, and I do love that, like you said, the rise and fall of a match and how it's presented and the way that the crowd reacts and the way that you're reacting inside. I wanted to try and capture that in a comic book. And if you have an innocent character, we can connect ourselves to that character a little bit. So, while it is a story beat and a plot point, it is a way for us to have a window into the story of Do a Powerbomb: inside of what's happening inside the ring. This character on the outside is like our passageway to get into the action. Like Frodo is our way to get into Lord of the Rings. Everything is through their eyes, right?
Mike Johnson: Like Luke Skywalker and the first Star Wars trilogy,
Daniel Warren Johnson: Totally. They're a vessel to get the viewers/readers into the moment into that emotional core of what I feel drives this story. So and I think, you and I know how amazing pro wrestling moments can be and like how, because we're big fans. We're huge fans; it's a big part of our lives. But for those who maybe are not pro wrestling fans, it was important to me to try, especially in the first issue, a bit of a hand holding walking through a match, if that makes sense. I know that there's a lot of crossover between wrestling fans and comic book fans, but for those comic book fans that don't necessarily like pro wrestling, I wanted to make sure that I gave them the space to invite them into the story and feel like they could be a part of it, even if they're not huge wrestling fans.
Mike Johnson: Jumping back over to Jurassic League. I feel like that book lends itself so much to action figures and toys and collectables and stuff because not just the moves, but when you think about the look of these characters, they almost look like pro wrestlers. They've got over-the-top crazy bright costumes, and they've got menacing faces and very, very expressive looks. I know my nephew, who's four years old who loves dinosaurs, would be like dragging me to buy these, if he saw these toys. How much of that was in your mind when you and Juan were coming up with the looks of the characters and obviously, there's throwbacks to the classic DC Trinity and things like that. You're not going to change up the color scheme and the look too much, but how much of it was let's create something so cool they're going to have no choice but to market this?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Well, I got to give credit again to Juan. To be honest, when I like to make character designs I never think about toys because it seems like such a pipe dream of my own characters being made into toys. It's just no way that'll ever happen. So I just try and make them look as cool as I possibly can on the page and then let... Give the rest to fate. But Juan, Juan is a believer. So like when he pitched the book, he actually mocked up action figures and like Pop vinyl figures as well of his own Jurassic League characters. So for Juan, he is there. And I know for a fact that Batsaur, when he designed that thing, he's like this would be the best action figure ever. And I agree with him, it'll be a great action figure. And I really, really, really hope DC does it.
Mike Johnson: Hey, you never know!
Daniel Warren Johnson: You hear me, DC? Do it, do it, do it, do it.
Mike Johnson: Yeah. And hey, WWE did the Masters of the Universe crossover toy line. You never know, just like DC had one.
Daniel Warren Johnson: It could happen.
Mike Johnson: You never know. And like reading the first issue, I was like, this lends itself to play sets. This lends itself to crazy vehicles. There's all sorts of madness. and that's the beauty of doing a book like this, where it's all unknown and you're basically... You've got in your mind. And for you, you're kind of lucky because everybody who's going to read this book or even has some level of familiarity. They know who Aquaman is. They know who Wonder Woman is, but now you take that, those expectations and you subvert them and flip them and it creates something brand new. And it's a nice new kaleidoscope into the DC world.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Totally. I couldn't say it better myself.
Mike Johnson: Well, sir, I think as someone who loves DC and I literally have thousands and thousands of DC books, DC is a big part of my childhood, and it takes a lot for me to be like, wow, this is something completely different. I lived through reading Crisis on Infinite Earths month by month waiting to see whether worlds would live or die, and if anything would ever be the same again, which it wasn't. But this is a completely fun, different take that feels like a throwback to the eighties, but also something completely new. So I congratulate you and Juan in the book. Do a Powerbomb was so compelling and interesting to me. I will not give it away, but the twist at the end of the second issue, I was... Ah, I should have seen it coming, and I didn't. And it was like, like a Luchador had lost his mask figuratively. Like, ah, I didn't guess that was his identity. Wow. So you obviously have figured out the key to open up the door to connect these two very unique worlds that you and I both love and respect. So I really congratulate you on that. Congratulations on the release of Jurassic League #1 today, and you have an open invite to come back to talk wrestling with us anytime you want. So, before we go, I wanted to give you a chance... Obviously you're reaching out to wrestling fans here, let's do the old wrestling thing. Let's talk fans into the building. Why should a wrestling fan who maybe isn't deep entrenched in DC or Marvel or Image or any of these great companies want to track down a copy of Jurassic League One and dive in as maybe their reintroduction or their introduction into DC?
Daniel Warren Johnson: Yeah, I'd say one of the things I like most about comic books is when we highlighted it in this interview is there's no budget. It's just about the amount of time that you have in a day to draw the coolest crap that you can think of in your head. And that's kind of what Jurassic League was. It was me and Juan sitting down being like what would be really fun to draw? What would be really fun to have our readers experience, for us to be able to see and make up? And that's kind of how we tackled each issue. And we came up with things that are super crazy, that I think show in Jurassic League #1. And I believe that as pro wrestling fans, we love a good time. We love having fun. And that's all I can say. Juan and I, we had a lot of fun and I think if we had fun, then you'll have fun reading it as well. So please join us.
Mike Johnson: The best wrestling shows and the best comic book stories are very unique, but very similar in the same way that if they hit right, and there's a spectacle involved, they make memories for fans that make them smile for the rest of their lives. And I think you're onto something with Jurassic League. I know you're definitely onto something with Do a Powerbomb and we wish you nothing but the best in success in the future with family, and you and Juan professionally. And I look forward to chatting wrestling in comics with you down the line when the constellations align and the multiverse opens up.
Daniel Warren Johnson: Thank you so much, Mike.
Mike Johnson: All right, everybody until next time here on PWInsider. I'm Mike Johnson. Go check out Jurassic League #1, published by the great DC comics right now, by our guest Daniel Warren Johnson. No relation.
For more on Daniel Warren Johnson, visit www.DanielWarrenArt.com.
DC Comics' Jurassic League #1 is now on sale. For more on the book, click here.
Image Comics' Do A Powerbomb will see its first issue released this June. Click here for more.
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