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Mike Johnson: I do want to talk about those 90 days. So we'll jump into that, and then I'll dive backwards. So you get released, and in case people don't know, when the 90 days happens, you're still under contract for those 90 days. They just basically tell you, "We're paying you until this end date. You're still with us, but we're not going to continue on past that date. So you're still getting your salary, or your downsize, as they call it, but you're not allowed to go wrestle anywhere. Having that 90 days, especially in this current environment where everything in the world is shut down, how does that help or spark the brain of creativity when you're planning for day 91? Does it help? Does it hurt? You've been very active on social media. You've been very active on Twitter and on Facebook and things like that. So there's outlets that you have that you can create just in your home without going anywhere. Obviously you can't go and take bumps yet, but how does having that 90-day period where you're kind of in this bubble, and you're left to your own devices to do nothing but create, how does that help or how does that hinder you?
EC3: I would say me personally, everyone's different, but it inspired me to have 90 days to create something unfiltered, unfettered, something directly my own, something that has my stamp on it, my heart, my soul, my passion. I have some help with my partner as well helps me on creative aspects, but this is the one time, what do I see may be coming? How do I get there? How can I tell that story while still corporately funded, in theory, and be okay to take a couple risks, but make something that I can present to, whether it's fans, to the next people that may hire me? This is who I am. This is what I want to do. Show it to the world so they know, "Okay, I see where he's kind of going with this." Then when it goes somewhere else, there's give and takes you're going to have on the creative endeavor with people that you work for. So I just wanted to create something in 90 days that I was proud of, that I was happy with, I won. I did seriously challenge myself to say in 90 days, I could create something creatively that shows, in my opinion, the creative process in the company is broken. I can do it with myself, my mate, a Sony handheld, and some forthright some articulate words. I can't even say the words right. Ah, concussions. No, articulation, words, my story, wow, with something true and personal and real to me, and hopefully it applies to others. If not, it's a cool wrestling character. If it's nothing, people don't like it, it's fine too. This is what I'd like to see. This is who I think I am. This is the person I am. Let's see what I can do.
Mike Johnson: So the EC3 character and persona that we knew in Impact Wrestling and in NXT, we know that worked for you. So why push to do something different? Why not just say, "All right, I figured out which direction my ship should be going in. I just got to stay the course until I can continue to play off of that intellectual property?" Why even try and push yourself beyond the bubble of what's familiar to the audience?
EC3: I'm sick of our professional world just conforming to the status quo. I'm not going to say, if that works for people, everyone doing the same moves, having the same matches, talking the same, looking the same, that's fine. I think one thing I'm better at than people is standing out or isolating myself in a different realm. So I guess it was a chance to do that. It's very easy to rest them, the laurels of the past, which kind of brings me to a big point of the character is my disdain from nostalgia, because through the entirety of my career, no matter where I am and what I've done, I think our industry falls back on nostalgia too much. How can you move forward in the future if you continually live in the past? I think our generation had nostalgia the worst because of how the chips have fallen, so to speak. What else was I saying? I started word-vomiting. I like this idea this "character" is somebody that I am truly, which is usually the best character, the best kind of persona is somebody true to yourself, and it's something I wanted to do. I was going to try for NXT, but I got called up instead. Then, because after a big loss, it'd be like I keep doing the same thing. In theory, if you were an athlete and you keep doing the same things and then you start losing, well, obviously your game has been figured out, so you have to change it. I like the aspect of evolving something. But at the same time, the world has changed. It just so happens my idea for this character evolved with it. Constantly, anything I do on social media, the way the world is, the narrative continually changes. There's some things I had to cut. There's some things that if I uploaded them 10 seconds too early with whatever happened in the news cycle, I could have been canceled, not based on it, but just in theory. It's a touchy subject matter. But my personal quest to be happy with myself has filtered into this character, I guess you could say. you know who gave me... Real fast, who gave me... Interesting, because maybe he is a genius, but one conversation I've had with Vince McMahon...Vincent Kennedy... was he wanted to know who the real you is, not the role. I'm like, "Oh." Because I am a top 1%. I do well, but I'm not really so-and-so's nephew. I'm not really this rich, entitled, smug kid. I've played it great, but that's not really me. That was resonating advice. Who am I for real? Maybe it took me too long to figure it out or the stars didn't align for him to see it, and that's fine, because if this was filtered through any other form, it would not be true to myself and it would not be what I want it to be.
Mike Johnson: So before we talk about the future and how you perceive yourself going forward, or maybe even where you're going to go, I do want to bring us back to the WWE run on the main roster, because you had that short little program with Dean Ambrose right after he was turned heel. For whatever reason, it was almost immediately dropped. They flipped the roles, and then it was dropped. Walking through that story, what went wrong? Or did things go right at the wrong time? It seemed like this was their way to bring you up, and at the same time, maybe they were trying to punish Ambrose a little bit, because they were a little annoyed at him at the time. But it didn't last long, and it didn't seem to have any lasting effects for anybody involved. What happened there, and why did that careen off the cliff so quickly, in your mind?
EC3: I wish I knew, to be honest. I don't know. I was at the point where I thought I was brought up with an intention and a purpose. So I made the mistake of trusting the process instead of being the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. I remember I think, "Hey, I think we're turning you heel." I'm like, "Oh, thank God I'm such a better heel and I don't do flashy things, and I can really talk... Man, yeah, turn me heel and get me on the microphone right away. Let's go." But that didn't ever happen. So I found myself by trusting others would be one thing. I think they were mad at Dean for choosing to free himself as well. Whether that's right or wrong, that's their business. But we were working live events, having good matches, but obviously he was being cheered, because he's a notable name and everyone loves him, and I was being booed, because I was going against the guy who just told the company, "Hey, see you," and was a hero to them. Also, he has a stellar body of work with the company. They've been watching him for years. He killed himself countless times for their entertainment. Of course they're going to cheer them and boo me. A lot of the matches, they were pretty run-of-the-mill, babyface vs. heel, baby face and whatever, but on the last night, I vividly remember Dean, he was like, "Let's just switch it." "Yeah, all right." Then I started turning it up as a hero, and he started fighting from underneath, babyface, and then I cheated to win. It was great. They were getting me what I always wanted, the response is like, "Oh, shove the babyface down his throat, but we actually don't like him." Sort of the boo Cena kind of thing. I'm like, "Holy hell, if I fall into that, I'm money." But instead, turned I heel, and he went on to finish, and I went into obscurity.
Mike Johnson: Do you ever wish you would have kind of-
EC3: I led you down a really great story with no pay-off. [Laughs]
Mike Johnson: No, unfortunately, that's kind of the story of your run there. The story started, and then it just didn't ever continue. Is there ever a point where you go... You just mentioned having a conversation with Vince McMahon. Did you ever have that conversation with him or anyone where you say, "What is going on here?" Does it go up the flagpole and never come back down? Do you just try not to rock the ship? You've always been a very driven person. You were driven to succeed after the first run. You find your way back there. I can't imagine you were just sitting in a corner being like, "All right, well whatever." That doesn't seem like the person that I've interviewed over the years. So were there conversations, or were you questioning, or was it just, "All right, we're going to wait and see what happens?"
EC3: I didn't question enough. I am an accountable person for my own mistakes and flaws. I think part of me trusts in the process. Part of me was naïve. Then part of me, as often times as I try to get in there, like you can only see him on TV days, and that's really a 20% chance at best, unless you force yourself in there. I didn't feel, although I should have, alpha male style, just kicked the door down and get into it. That might have played better, but at the same time, I had trust in the process, and I failed to do that. So I should have done that better. But if I really wanted to do it better, I would have. There was part of me that was... I don't know if I was feeling the ramifications of these injuries and things like that, or I just wanted... I allowed the mentality I've told myself I'd never let happen happen, and I allowed it. So I'm at fault for that. That was nothing matters. It doesn't matter. Just shut up and obey and collect your paycheck. I did that.
Interview continues on Page 3!
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