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"Wrestling is one of those things that, to the mainstream culture, it's misunderstood.", said Corgan this past Sunday morning in an exclusive interview with PWInsider.com. "The average person has no problem suspending their disbelief for Bruce Willis in "Die Hard" but the fact that wrestling is sort of live and came out of this carnival culture, it's sort of this tainted thing. I'm constantly trying to explain to people what I find fascinating about professional wrestling and why it's a high art form."
When Pumpkins were booked to play in Mexico City as part of MTV's World Stage Concert, a yet-to-air special featuring big name acts playing in different international venues, Corgan immediately began thinking of ways to incorporate a style of that "high art form", Lucha Libre into the performance.
"I thought it would be cool to have some of the AAA stars do a run-in. I reached out to my good friend Jeremy Borash of TNA and asked, 'Do you know anybody there?' He said that one of his good friends was "Moody" [Melendez] the booker and he put me in touch with Moody. I realized how big of a surprise it could be. I know how big the Luchadors are in Mexican culture and it would totally pop the crowd to have them come out. So, I got in touch with Moody and then, " Corgan said laughing, "It was all downhill from there."
During the performance, La Legion Extranjera, a top heel stable in AAA, invaded the stage during the Pumpkins' set. Koslov, flanked by Hernandez and Decnis, tore apart Corgan's music on the mic and demanded the show be stopped. When Corgan blew off the request, the heels attacked him, right down to Hernandez lifting the 6'4 singer up for the Border Toss. This being pro wrestling, babyfaces Extreme Tiger, El Mesias, and La Parka Jr. hit the scene to make the save. The performance ended with Corgan and the babyfaces raising their arms in celebration.
Good had once again triumphed over evil...but how had MTV reacted to Corgan's request of incorporating Lucha into the show?
"Well, I didn't really let them know until the day of the show because I know how these things work...somebody in the chain [of command] could shut it down. At one point, MTV came back and was asking, 'What are you guys going to do?' and I said, they are kind of going to come out...I knew that if they were told what we were going to do, they probably wouldn't have let us do it."
The angle received a lot of publicity both in Mexico and here in the United States, where it was picked up by a number of music outlets and blogs. So, how did MTV feel after the spectacle was done?
"I was concerned because I didn't really tell them what we were going to do. If I had told them Hernandez was going to jack me up in the air, I know they would have said no. So, we just went ahead and did it. Afterward, I had to go and meet with all the MTV brass and do a press conference and whatnot. So, you know, you are kind of walking down the hallway going, "OK, here it comes" but they were all, "Oh, we loved it. That was so cool" and everyone was totally happy. For MTV, in Mexico particularly, they got massive press the next day. I can see the paper right here and on the front page of the entertainment section is me and La Parka and Mesias and Extreme Tiger all with our hands in the air. Just massive press in Mexico."
As of this writing however, there is no word on how the angle will air. The special is several weeks from airing on MTV Latin America and MTV certainly has the right of final edit. However, Corgan is working to make sure that wrestling fans get to see the footage in some fashion, even if it doesn't make the broadcast version of the show. Still, Corgan is thrilled.
"I'm a fan first. I've tried in some known ways and some unknown ways to really try and show my love for wrestling. It was a great honor to have those guys be a part of my show."
It was also another chance for Corgan to give back yet again to a genre he's been a fan of since his early days growing up in Chicago.
"When I was a kid, I still don't know the name of the promotion. I think it was Bob Luce Promotion in Chicago. I grew up with Baron Von Raschke, Dick The Bruiser, The Crusher, Bob Brazil...sort of a lot of guys towards the end of their career and we also used to get, on cable, whatever it was back in the day, the NWA with Ric Flair and Arn Anderson and all those guys. So, I grew up on all that and I thought it was so much fun and of course, back then I didn't realize that it wasn't real. I thought it was real back when I was a kid."
Like a lot of fans, Corgan had that period where he fell out of professional wrestling until one night he was flipping channels during a break in the studio and found out pro wrestling had grown up with him.
"I sort of fell out of love with it as a teen. One night when I was recording a Smashing Pumpkins record towards the end of the 1990s, I was flipping channels and came across "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and it brought back everything that I loved about wrestling as a kid, but there it was in a modern context. It was something that I could understand and appreciate as an adult and I got sucked in by "Stone Cold" and The Rock."
Then, like a lot of other wrestling fans, Corgan discovered something special was happening in South Philadelphia.
"Late one night, I came across - I think they were on The Sunshine Network - ECW at about 1 o'clock in the morning and I remember watching that and thinking, 'Oh my God, this is exactly what I've been looking for."
Corgan attended ECW's first PPV in Chicago in September 1999, Anarchy Rulz. During his visit backstage at the show, he immediately struck up a number of friendships with those in the company, many of which last to this day. Within a year, Corgan was doing angles for Extreme Championship Wrestling, including one where he was struck with a telephone by Lou E. Dangerously. In a move that has some extreme irony considering the events of the last few days, MTV, in the news section of their website, declared the ECW angle one of their "Signs of The Apocalypse"
But was Corgan ever concerned, or is he concerned now, that his involvement within pro wrestling is going to cast a shadow over his musical aspirations and success?
"After the ECW angle, MTV ran [that story.] It absolutely hurt my career; [treating it as if] I had lost my mind. It absolutely treated me like I was Andy Kaufman, in that type of way, but I didn't care because the one thing I love about wrestling and the people I come into contact with [in wrestling]...there's a lot honor. There's a lot of craziness that goes on behind the scenes, but there's a lot of honor. That kind of honor, amongst the peers of wrestling, is exactly what's lacking in my business - the music business, so I take a lot of pride in my relationships in wrestling because I think they oftentimes do things the right way. I don't want to say wrestling's the underdog. Vince McMahon runs a billion dollar company so he's hardly an underdog, but I like the rebellious attitude of wrestling. The nature of it. I like that it makes fun of things in the way that it does. It takes on all sorts of things in a very interesting way. Wrestling is at the forefront of a lot of cultural tension and that's sort of sociological stuff. At the end of the day, it's just a lot of fun. I couldn't give a f*ck. I just wanted to have fun. I've really enjoyed my connection to wrestling and I've done everything in my power to bring glory and more respect to something I really love, passionately."
That passion has sort of run a full circle. Years after befriending Lou E. Dangerously, real name Lou D'Angeli, at the first ECW event Corgan attended and about a decade after the phone smash that MTV decried, the pair still work on projects together. Earlier in the year. D'Angeli played a heel character at Corgan concerts, berating fans from the stage and reading The Great Gatsby in a bit poached from Andy Kaufman's old shtick. D'Angeli brought a little bit of wrestling art to Corgan's world and now Corgan gets to return the favor. He's billed as Executive Producer on an upcoming D'Angeli documentary on the Philadelphia heavy metal scene of the 1980s, "All Ages Sunday."
"[Lou's] probably one of my best friends. We stay in close contact. Lou's just a great guy. Like me, he was a fan first and that's how he got involved as an ECW Original, as they are known these days. We've got a few projects we're going to try to do. We're going to try and do an Internet radio station, sort of bridging wrestling personalities and classic rock; maybe wrestling people putting together their favorite playlists and things like that. That's something we are working on now. Lou is also working on a documentary on 80s, Philly hair metal - Cinderella and those bands - and I've been trying to help him out with some of my contacts here on the West Coast to help that happen for him. He's one of my best friends and he's a total stand up guy. He's one of those guys who's always going to tell you the truth and in wrestling, that's not always easy to find."
Corgan still closely follows wrestling as much as he can, given the insanity of his touring schedule, but noted that the business is going through a "transition right now" and while he doesn't enjoy watching any particular company right now, as "politics are hurting the overall product of wrestling."
"As a fan, I can't stand the way some things are booked and the way certain people are used, especially when they are in the prime of their career and their assets aren't being fully taken advantage of. Who knows? Maybe things are changed forever and you'll never see that wide open era of the late 1990s and 2000s where they would hand someone like The Rock a microphone and he could just go out and cut a promo or even a Shane Douglas who was a great promo guy - guys who could just go out and let it rip."
Corgan mentions Bryan Danielson, Undertaker, Edge, Kurt Angle and Davey Richards as among those he loves watching work today, noting that while there are so many talented performers in all three top promotions - WWE, TNA and ROH, "I just can't jibe with the overall point of it all. It's similar to what we are all going through in music. You are always trying to balance between the bloggers and the mainstream and it's very hard to get a balance these days. The bloggers are all yelling at you for doing it wrong and the mainstream is ignoring you - so what do you do? It's a constant battle and everything is in transition right now. The Internet has made a huge impact in how everything is run in entertainment, not just wrestling."
Corgan was ringside at Wrestlemania earlier this year and names Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels as his favorite match of the year.
"I was in the fourth row. To be able to watch guys work at that level - it's a work of art. I don't care what anyone in the mainstream culture thinks. To see two guys that are just so gifted at what they do work at that supreme level, particularly with each other, in trust. Incredible. Just incredible. I was totally honored to be there for that match. That's something that gets lost a lot of time in the indies with all the highspots. I love the highspots too, but when you see guys work like that, at that level, it's unbelievable....when you think about two guys in their 40s, with all the years under their belt and all the road trips and all the bullsh*t they had to put up with in their lives - and there they are with 70,000 people in the palm of their hands. That's unbelievable. I'm 43. I've put my miles in on the road and I know what they've been through - at least from my perspective. I know how much it means to those guys to reach that moment in their career. That's a peak moment, especially for them. To be able to see that, and to know what it means to them and to see them pull it off on the biggest stage at the biggest moment, it's incredible. That's when it's great to be a wrestling fan. When you are able to be in that moment."
Corgan himself found himself in one of those moments just a few days ago in Mexico City.
"I'm real excited for people to see it," Corgan said excitedly. "It's...real cool. I can't believe it happened."
While the babyfaces were victorious on that particular evening, there's no word yet as to whether AAA's La Legion Extranjera might be lurking in the shadows, seeking revenge as heels always do. This is professional wrestling after all, so one never knows. That's part of lure of a most unique art form and if the Legion comes knocking, Corgan is prepared.
"There was no greater honor than...La Parka gave me one of his masks that he wore in the ring. I was touched. I get treated so well and have been treated so well by the wrestling world, from The Undertaker to Randy Orton to Stone Cold Steve Austin. Working with the stars from AAA, it was the exact same thing. Wrestling is such a wonderful...there's a lot of weird sh*t that goes on; I know it can be cutthroat but at the end of the day, it really is about honor and I've been nothing but graced again and again by the people I've come into contact with and it was no different with the AAA guys. They treated me great and I was so honored to have them as part of the show."
Smashing Pumpkins are currently touring. For more details on the tour, visit www.SmashingPumpkins.com or follow Corgan on twitter at www.twitter.com/Billy.
Mike Johnson can be reached at Mike@PWInsider.com.
For more on the Lou D'Angeli documentary "All Ages Sunday", which Corgan is Executive Producing, visit www.AllAgesSunday.com.
To hear the complete, unedited interview with Billy Corgan, which includes longer discussion on many of the topics touched upon here, Corgan's feelings on the Internet's role in entertainment today, his deep affection for Mick Foley's work, a potential appearance as a Raw Guest Host, his friendship with Natalya Neidhart and respect for the Hart family and much more, subscribe to the PWInsider.com Elite section at this link.
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