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"We're in Harlem, are we?"
Pro wrestling takes me to a lot of offbeat places for a lot of eccentric reasons, but this one amuses me for some reason. I'm standing in a gymnasium at The Columbia Secondary School in Harlem, NY speaking with former WWE World Heavyweight champion Sheamus, discussing rugby.
Of all the traditions and culture that have come out of Harlem, rugby isn't one of them.
Yet here we are, talking that sport as Sheamus has flown directly from WWE TV tapings in California to NYC to do promotional work for the Try Rugby USA group as well as an upcoming London Irish vs. Saracens game on March 12th at Red Bull Arena in New Jersey.
It's technically his day off after a whirlwind few weeks of rehabbing an injury, recording dialouge for the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film, getting cleared from aforementioned injury, recording DVD commentary material for an upcoming "Rick and Morty" season set, plus all the gyms, hotels, flights and rental cars in between....and of yeah, throwing Brogue Kicks on Monday Night Raw.
One can forgive that Sheamus didn't know what area of NYC he was in at the time. For him, it was another check on the list that never ends when you work for WWE. He, like a lot of professional wrestlers, live his life on a track as everything else whizzes by at dizzying speed, life in a constant state of flux.
Yet, here he is, because Sheamus wants to be.
"I'm here to promote rugby. I've been a huge fan of the sport my whole life back in Ireland. I played in college. I played for Rugby El Salvador for a brief period of time. I've been following it ever since I came over here to America. I love the sport and we're here to try and support it and educate people about what a great sport it is."
While the sports has a number of followers in the WWE locker rooms, including JBL and Wade Barrett, Sheamus feels there's a whole audience that is ready to embrace rugby, because, they already love football, and well, rugby is a "much more of an exciting game."
Noting that everyone worldwide loves the Super Bowl because of the entertainment aspects and spectacle of what the biggest night in the NFL has become, Sheamus says that fans looking for action shouldn't overlook his sport of choice.
"I think Americans that see a sport that's physical and passionate and they'll embrace it," said Sheamus. "The problem we have here with rugby is that you have to educate people. Players don't wear motorbike helmets like you do in the NFL. There's no pads. It's very physical, cardio type of game. Two halves are forty minutes each. There's no offense or defense, but the hits are there. It's safe hits. It's a safe sport. It's well organized and it's a lot of fun. There's a lot of players. 15 players on each side and everyone's passionate to win and I think, to me, it's better then American football. A much faster paced game. Less stoppages, much more of an exciting game and it's more of a team sport. It's less about the individual and more about the 15 guys that are playing."
While rugby might be a team effort, professional wrestling, at it's core is about the individual performing to get over with the audience, to create a moment that, when all things align perfectly, stands iconic. There's a never-ending chase for perfection in the ring, because perfection will never truly be achieved. It's about the performance and when that match is over, the mindset goes to the next performance, the next night, the next attempt at perfection - that one night and moment that will make the company, the fans and your peers look to you as a bigger star and a bigger name.
Over the course of his WWE career, Sheamus has hit the mark that everyone in the company wants to be at - holding the WWE World Heavyweight championship on three occasions. Still, at only 39, he's also been in the same boat as other performers who find their momentum slowing, leading to them questioning the what, whys and hows of how they landed mired back in the middle of the card and figuring a way back out. When creative teams and outside trends can both assist and handicap you in that quest, there are no easy answers.
For Sheamus, the worst day of his career was the day he learned his bout Daniel Bryan were being yanked off the televised card at Wrestlemania 26 in 2011.
"The one that really killed us [himself and Daniel Bryan] was when they turned out U.S. title match into a Battle Royal. I was sick. There was no lower point for me than that day. We just looked at each other and I just wanted to leave right away. Just, what am I doing here? You're literally geared up and you're like, 'Yes, we can go out there and steal the show just like we've been doing at the live events' and we can literally go out there and tear it up, and then you hear, 'No, you can't. Pre-Show and...it's a battle royal."
The moment was made even worse because after things had cooled off for Sheamus following a feud with Triple H the previous year, he and Bryan had found a nice chemistry in the ring - "grass roots, as Shawn Michaels and Triple H, told us", says Sheamus. They were primed and ready. It was their moment to kick it out of the park, but like Charlie Brown racing for the football, Lucy pulled it away at that same moment.
So how does one take all that and rebound? How does one even start to build a personal strategy to overcome what's obviously a personal hit to the gut?
"You can't re-strategize," he notes with the perspective of hindsight. "All you can do is do the best with the television time they gave you. I know we both came out of it dejected. What can you do? You can sulk about it and say this isn't fair or you can go, 'You know what, let's turn it up another notch. Let's just keep going.' These people that came in for Mania at the time, they aren't going to be there next year. The brand split was still there. I remember me and Danny went to Smackdown and said, 'OK, this is our opportunity. Let's do it.' We had great match after great match on Smackdown and the brand split sort of helped put us back on the map at the time. He would go from there to Money in the Bank and the World title. I was making the transition from heel to babyface. It was an interesting time. We both sort of looked at each other and said let's prove everyone wrong."
There's something of a sad irony of talking about Bryan today as it's only two weeks removed from the retirement of Daniel Bryan, who Sheamus deemed his favorite opponent ever. While the majority of the WWE roster was assembled in Seattle for Bryan's retirement speech, the timing of that speech unfortunately meant Sheamus was sitting home, injured himself, alone, taking it all in.
"I was at home, watching [Bryan's] speech and I won't lie, it was like, it was hard to watch."
The retirement of Bryan obviously weighs on Sheamus. His tone changes when he speaks about it, going from professional to a quieter tone, making it a little harder to hear him as a rugby skirmish is ongoing in the background. His eyes look down. The mood between us changes immediately as he expounds upon what Bryan meant to him, professionally and personally."
"I still can't believe, you know, that he's not going to be in the ring anymore, because I learned more from him...he was my favorite opponent, ever. We kicked lumps out of each other. His boot marks would literally be on my chest for a week after. We had that match in Chicago, the two out of three falls. We had plenty of matches on top of that. He's a very, very special guy, a very special opponent. I can't say how much he's going to be missed. He's irreplaceable. Like they say, people come and go. You can't replace Daniel Bryan."
Sheamus continues talking about 'proving everyone wrong' and how Bryan certainly hit that mark of perfection mentioned earlier. Not only perfection, but that iconic moment that all performers, no matter the genre, strive to achieve.
"The height that [Bryan] reached after the 'Yes Movement' and Wrestlemania 30 was incredible and so well deserved, man. It couldn't have happened to a nicer fella. He defied the odds and changed the rules. He literally teared down the walls and the great thing about Danny is that he showed it doesn't matter how big or how small you are - when you have his passion...he was believable. People talk about Shawn Michaels when he wrestled. He wasn't the biggest guy but he was believable in everything he did. You knew he was a scrapper. You knew he could fight and Danny Bryan had the same thing. He could hang against anybody. OK, he wasn't six-foot tall but when he stepped out there, you knew he was gonna kick the crap out of you. I'd go in there and try and grab him from underneath and he'd kick me right in the side of the leg. It was like someone had a knife and was digging into me. Everything he did was so believable. You believed he could fight. He had so much passion and so much ability. But you can have all the ability in the world and all the passion involved - and wrestling is wrestling - but when there's a fight, that's when people get really involved and that guy could fight man."
While Bryan certainly achieved his immortality among WWE fans and he's moved onto the next stage of his life, Sheamus continues on the grind, recently returning from a lingering tendon injury in his arm stemming from tearing a tendon in his thumb last year. With Wrestlemania season in sight, Sheamus is still seeking that iconic moment, noting that while he wrestled Bryan several times on the company's flagship event, they weren't the "Wrestlemania matches" he would have wanted.
So, as all the players are vying for their spot April 3rd in Dallas, Texas, what would Sheamus want to do if Triple H and Vince McMahon came to him and asked?
"If only that happened!" Sheamus laughed, lightening up again. "If only that happened. No, seriously. Undertaker. I've been saying it for years. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I've said it for years. Undertaker. Undertaker. It's out of my hands, fella. Would I love to wrestle him? Absolutely I would. Without a doubt. Brock Lesnar would be another one at Wrestlemania. That would be huge. I really don't think...the biggest match I've had at Wrestlemania is Triple H at 26. Daniel Bryan, The World Heavyweight championship match was short but what happened after that was what was really special to me, too. Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, absolutely. I'd love a fight with Brock. I think Kevin Owens is a good one. To me, whether people look at Kevin Owens as this or not, I see him as a babyface. I'd love to fight Kevin Owens. Whatever happens, it's all out of my hands. All I can do is get back in the ring [now that he's cleared to return] and do my best, give 100% of what I have, not pick up any other injuries and go out there and enjoy every moment I have because that's what it's all about, brother. Going out there and embracing 'You look stupid' chants, respecting my 'hawk, asking them if they are not entertained and beating the lumps out of people and kicking Brogue Kicks and making the most of what you've got, because as I've said, the injuries make you realize it's not going to last forever."
Indeed, we are back to talking about the finite amount of time professional wrestlers have in the ring. As Indiana Jones once famously said, "It's not the years honey, it's the mileage" and the same is true for any and every professional wrestler to enter any ring. Time and injuries last longer than the sting of any standard bump. Sheamus' own brush with injuries are no exception when it comes to that reminder.
"When I had my neck thing and my hand thing and I went through the [ladder, Money in the Bank 2013], I went to the hospital. Doctors were running around going, 'Oh My God, I've never seen anything like this!' This female doctor was saying, 'You'll never wrestle again!' I'm lying in bed, I can't feel me left arm and I'm going, 'What? What's going on?' Then, they were calming me down, telling, 'No, no, they haven't seen wrestlers. It's fine.' [The female doctor] was literally freaking out. Just think of like [Looney Toons character] Sylvester on fire, trying to chase his tail. That's literally what this lady was doing, just running around the whole room, like hysterically, saying I would never wrestle again. I appreciate the fact you're so concerned about me despite the fact that we only met five minutes ago, but calm down so I can try and take this all in. We put our bodies through so much and she jumped the gun, but that was the moment where I realized, 'Maybe I don't have another Wrestlemania left."
As it turned out, it took time but Sheamus did return and even surprised everyone by cashing in Money in the Bank at Survivor Series 2015 for another WWE World Heavyweight championship win. He's still racing the clock, the one that will eventually run out on all performers as it did Daniel Bryan, looking for his iconic moment and willing to Brogue Kick everyone in the way of that moment, as long as it brings the audience to their feet.
"That's what it's all about," Sheamus commented, "taking people out of their reality, sucking them into these matches and showing them what we are all about."'
In the meantime, the platform WWE provides allows a number of perks. He will be seen as Rocksteady in the new Ninja Turtles film that will be released later this summer. Sheamus regularly is involved in the company's different community outreach projects. There's always the possibility of a WWE Studios film down the line. Best of all, on this day, his celebrity allows him to shed a spotlight on something he loves, rugby.
The London Irish will meet Saracens in a Aviva Premiership match at The Red Bull Arena in Harrison, New Jersey on 3/12. For more, click here.
PWInsider Elite subscribers can listen to the complete, unedited conversation with Sheamus right now, including additional discussion of Daniel Bryan, The WWE Wellness Policy, whether the general public truly understands what professional wrestlers put themselves through in 2016, being cast as Rocksteady in the new TMNT 2 film, more rugby and more. Subscribe now at www.PWInsiderElite.com.
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